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#1 17 Jul 2006 15:50

Ethan
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From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 20 Jan 2005
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Dvorak Is Stupid

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1987181,00.asp

Wow, Dvorak is an absolute idiot.

The first problem is the idea of "cascading." It means what it says: falling—as in falling apart. You set a parameter for a style element, and that setting falls to the next element unless you provide it with a different element definition. This sounds like a great idea until you try to deconstruct the sheet. You need a road map. One element cascades from here, another from there. One wrong change and all hell breaks loose. If your Internet connection happens to lose a bit of CSS data, you get a mess on your screen.

This just shows me he is not a good web developer.  I'll point out some issues here later.


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Blog | American Swedish Institute | Save the Internet

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#2 18 Jul 2006 2:34

laserlight
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From: Singapore
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Re: Dvorak Is Stupid

Oh, I thought you were referring to the keyboard layout.


"Finding the smallest program that demonstrates the error" is a powerful debugging tool.
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#3 18 Jul 2006 6:21

Ethan
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From: Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Dvorak Is Stupid

Well, I would not say that is the best either. wink

I think that Dvorak (the person) just writes these controversial comments for good readership.  In my opinion, he never really knows what he is writing about, especially in this case.


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Blog | American Swedish Institute | Save the Internet

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#4 18 Jul 2006 6:21

Sebastian
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Registered: 14 Mar 2005
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Re: Dvorak Is Stupid

What is a cascading design/layout?

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#5 18 Jul 2006 11:05

Tom
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Re: Dvorak Is Stupid

basically the use of css i believe


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#6 18 Jul 2006 11:50

Sebastian
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Re: Dvorak Is Stupid

Well, Dvorak seems to think that CSS is the solution to everything. When I started to make webpages I though it was quite simple to use fixed tables and iframes, but when I got enlightened and started to learn CSS it got way easier. Yes, he must be quite stupid.

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#7 18 Jul 2006 12:55

lotrgamemast
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From: England
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Re: Dvorak Is Stupid

CSS's real benefit was that the layout not only could be changed easily but also could become dynamic: The content is stored in a database and presented as necessary, with instant updates. With dynamic content, it's possible for 100 people to go to the same Web site and get 100 different versions.

Wow! Didn't know CSS had THAT feature tongue

If your Internet connection happens to lose a bit of CSS data, you get a mess on your screen.

Is that possible?

The real problem is that no two browsers—let alone no two versions of any one browser—interpret CSS the same way! The Microsoft browser interprets a style sheet one way, Firefox interprets it another way, and Opera a third way. Can someone explain to me exactly what kind of "standard" CSS is, anyway?

All browsers apart from IE support it to the same sort of standard and they give pretty much exactly the same results.

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#8 18 Jul 2006 12:58

lotrgamemast
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Re: Dvorak Is Stupid

http://discuss.pcmag.com/forums/3/10043 … 1004329569

Ha! thats classic. Firtly there BBCode is broken so it will display the HTML of the bbcode; and then I find it uses utterly pointless tables to style the box itself tongue Classic! bigsmile

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#9 18 Jul 2006 13:03

Sebastian
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Re: Dvorak Is Stupid

lotrgamemast wrote:

Is that possible?

Yes! See my thread on how it looks like when it happens on Lowter:
http://www.lowter.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=963

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#10 18 Jul 2006 15:04

Frenzie
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From: Antwerp, Belgium
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Re: Dvorak Is Stupid

CSS's real benefit was that the layout not only could be changed easily but also could become dynamic: The content is stored in a database and presented as necessary, with instant updates. With dynamic content, it's possible for 100 people to go to the same Web site and get 100 different versions.

Yeah, always thought that was stuff like PHP...

This sounds like a great idea until you try to deconstruct the sheet. You need a road map.

In that case you didn't organise your stylesheet very well. For example I'll say the one at my weblog. True, it is small, but not my tabbing technique, variations of it greatly improve readability and debugibility without making the basics behind CSS any different.

If your Internet connection happens to lose a bit of CSS data, you get a mess on your screen.

If your internet connections happens to lose a bit of HTML data, you only get half the content, and quite possibly a mess, on your screen.

Can someone explain to me exactly what kind of "standard" CSS is, anyway?

One which wasn't followed by IE regarding the box-model. The rest is merely bugs and features which aren't yet supported.

Everyone loses here, from users who can't understand why things look screwy, to developers who can't get CSS to do the job right, to baffled content providers. And what's being done about it? Nothing! Another fine mess from the standards bodies.

It's the browser creators who should do something about it, and even Microsoft has improved IE7's CSS handling a bit (mainly a few of the most annoying bugs, no real added functionality).

Or in conclusion, his piece seems more like something which should have been written 4-6 years ago. Then it may have had some truth, now it seems not blatantly uninformed, at the very best in an outdated knowledge way.

Last edited by Frenzie (18 Jul 2006 15:06)


Intelligent alien life does exist, otherwise they would have contacted us.

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#11 18 Jul 2006 15:21

Ethan
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From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 6960
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Re: Dvorak Is Stupid

Is that possible?

Yeah, but not if you set your browser to cache all CSS files. smile

This is not really an issue too much though.  It can happen with anything, HTML, if your PHP doesn't load all the way, etc.

I see that everyone seems to agree with exactly what I thought as well.  Really, he does not know anything about CSS. tongue


Ethan, Managing Director of Lowter
Blog | American Swedish Institute | Save the Internet

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#12 18 Jul 2006 17:20

Sebastian
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Registered: 14 Mar 2005
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Re: Dvorak Is Stupid

Ethan wrote:

Really, he does not know anything about CSS. tongue

Probably not. The webpage should consider to fire him, specially when he's lying in an article.

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#13 18 Jul 2006 20:40

Ethan
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From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 6960
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Re: Dvorak Is Stupid

I mean compare his blog:

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/

To some real web developers:

http://annevankesteren.nl
http://www.zeldman.com/
http://simon.incutio.com/

That just explains it all.


Ethan, Managing Director of Lowter
Blog | American Swedish Institute | Save the Internet

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#14 18 Jul 2006 23:45

laserlight
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From: Singapore
Registered: 25 Jan 2005
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Re: Dvorak Is Stupid

I see that everyone seems to agree with exactly what I thought as well.  Really, he does not know anything about CSS.

I disagree. He knows that the 'C' is for 'cascading'.


"Finding the smallest program that demonstrates the error" is a powerful debugging tool.
- Bjarne Stroustrup

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#15 19 Jul 2006 5:57

Ethan
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From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 6960
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Re: Dvorak Is Stupid

True, he knows the acronym and how it cascades, but that is about it.


Ethan, Managing Director of Lowter
Blog | American Swedish Institute | Save the Internet

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